Smoking Marijuana as a CF Patient

Ender

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>KrazyKat</b></i>

Until then, I will keep arguing with everybody who either misses the point constantly or continues to spout unmitigated opinions and deem them fact.

I gave up to a) improve my energy levels b) improve my appetite c) it's damned expensive and d) i SUSPECT it does damage to my lungs which I will never be able to get back.

But a suspicion is all I have and it's also all any of you have. Call it an 'educated guess' if it makes you sleep better at night.</end quote></div>

I have to agree with Kat, it's not so much the point of marijuana being bad etc, it's the fact that everyone just spews this crap that makes no sense sometimes. You talk about conspiracies for people to find reasons deem drugs acceptable....hahahha that is the funniest thing i have ever heard. I am sorry but you are the ones being brainwashed.

You know what's funny? I am willing to bet any money that if your government did somehow legalize it, and say it was ok to smoke, some people would automatically think that weed is ok because it is endorsed by the government.
 

Ender

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>KrazyKat</b></i>

Until then, I will keep arguing with everybody who either misses the point constantly or continues to spout unmitigated opinions and deem them fact.

I gave up to a) improve my energy levels b) improve my appetite c) it's damned expensive and d) i SUSPECT it does damage to my lungs which I will never be able to get back.

But a suspicion is all I have and it's also all any of you have. Call it an 'educated guess' if it makes you sleep better at night.</end quote></div>

I have to agree with Kat, it's not so much the point of marijuana being bad etc, it's the fact that everyone just spews this crap that makes no sense sometimes. You talk about conspiracies for people to find reasons deem drugs acceptable....hahahha that is the funniest thing i have ever heard. I am sorry but you are the ones being brainwashed.

You know what's funny? I am willing to bet any money that if your government did somehow legalize it, and say it was ok to smoke, some people would automatically think that weed is ok because it is endorsed by the government.
 

Ender

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>KrazyKat</b></i>

Until then, I will keep arguing with everybody who either misses the point constantly or continues to spout unmitigated opinions and deem them fact.

I gave up to a) improve my energy levels b) improve my appetite c) it's damned expensive and d) i SUSPECT it does damage to my lungs which I will never be able to get back.

But a suspicion is all I have and it's also all any of you have. Call it an 'educated guess' if it makes you sleep better at night.</end quote></div>

I have to agree with Kat, it's not so much the point of marijuana being bad etc, it's the fact that everyone just spews this crap that makes no sense sometimes. You talk about conspiracies for people to find reasons deem drugs acceptable....hahahha that is the funniest thing i have ever heard. I am sorry but you are the ones being brainwashed.

You know what's funny? I am willing to bet any money that if your government did somehow legalize it, and say it was ok to smoke, some people would automatically think that weed is ok because it is endorsed by the government.
 

kayleesgrandma

New member
So the general concensus is that there are no reliable studies on which to state factual statistics. Therefore, smoke at your own risk--with a warning that is may be hazardous to your health.
 

kayleesgrandma

New member
So the general concensus is that there are no reliable studies on which to state factual statistics. Therefore, smoke at your own risk--with a warning that is may be hazardous to your health.
 

kayleesgrandma

New member
So the general concensus is that there are no reliable studies on which to state factual statistics. Therefore, smoke at your own risk--with a warning that is may be hazardous to your health.
 

miesl

New member
Okay, how about we try these two:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6348548&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum">Allergenic fungi and actinomycetes in smoking materials and their health implications.</a>
Kurup VP, Resnick A, Kagen SL, Cohen SH, Fink JN.
Street marijuana, commercial cigarettes and pipe tobaccos were studied for the presence of fungi and actinomycetes associated with hypersensitivity pneumonitis. Aspergillus species and thermophilic actinomycetes were isolated from the smoking materials. In addition, Aspergillus fumigatus spores were isolated from marijuana smoke, indicating the potential hazard involved in developing serious disease. Precipitin antibodies against fungi, particularly Aspergillus, showed a higher prevalence in marijuana smokers, whereas only very few cigarette smokers and nonsmokers demonstrated antibodies to fungi. Cigarette smokers and nonsmokers showed more or less similar prevelance of antibodies against thermophilic actinomycetes.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6833678&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum">Marijuana smoking and fungal sensitization.</a>
Kagen SL, Kurup VP, Sohnle PG, Fink JN.
The possible role of marijuana (MJ) in inducing sensitization to Aspergillus organisms was studied in 28 MJ smokers by evaluating their clinical status and immune responses to microorganisms isolated from MJ. The spectrum of illnesses included one patient with systemic aspergillosis and seven patients with a history of bronchospasm after the smoking of MJ. Twenty-one smokers were asymptomatic. Fungi were identified in 13 of 14 MJ samples and included Aspergillus fumigatus, A. flavus, A. niger, Mucor, Penicillium, and thermophilic actinomycetes. Precipitins to Aspergillus antigens were found in 13 of 23 smokers and in one of 10 controls, while significant blastogenesis to Aspergillus was demonstrated in only three of 23 MJ smokers. When samples were smoked into an Andersen air sampler, A. fumigatus passed easily through contaminated MJ cigarettes. Thus the use of MJ assumes the risks of both fungal exposure and infection, as well as the possible induction of a variety of immunologic lung disorders.

And in case people don't know why aspergillus is bad for the CF patient (The pub med search for cystic fibrosis and aspergillus comes up with 279 hits):

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17050421&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum">Genetic and respiratory tract risk factors for aspergillosis: ABPA and asthma with fungal sensitization.</a>
Knutsen AP.
St. Louis University Health Sciences Center, Saint Louis University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA.

Allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis (ABPA) is a Th2 allergic hypersensitivity lung disease due to bronchial colonization of Aspergillus fumigatus that affects 1-2% of asthmatic and 7-9% of cystic fibrosis (CF) patients. We hypothesize that genetic risk factors predispose these patients to develop ABPA. We previously reported HLA-DR2 and DR5 restriction as a risk factor for the development of ABPA. We further propose that HLA-DR restriction is necessary but not sufficient for the development of ABPA. Recently, we reported that IL-4Ralpha single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) and in particular the ile75val SNP in the IL-4 binding region is another risk factor and is associated with increased sensitivity to IL-4 stimulation. It has been reported that the combination of IL-4Ralpha and IL-13 SNP, ile75val/arg110gln, is associated with more severe asthma. In preliminary studies, we have observed increased frequency of this combination in ABPA asthmatic and CF patients. Another genetic risk factor reported by Brouard et al. is the -1082 GG genotype in the IL-10 promoter in CF patients for the colonization of A. fumigatus and development of ABPA. This genotype was associated with increased plasma IL-10 levels, and perhaps may be associated with increased skewing of Th2 Aspergillus responses rather than down-regulation of inflammatory responses. We hypothesize that increased sensitivity of IL-4 mediated activities secondary to polymorphisms IL-4R in conjunction of other polymorphisms such as IL-13 and IL-10 in conjunction with HLA-DR2/DR5 restriction to Aspergillus antigens in ABPA patients result in increased B-cell activity, monocyte/dendritic cell phenotype that skews Th2 responses, and skewing of Aspergillus-specific Th2 cells. This model system may be applicable to other fungi such as Alternaria and Cladosporium which is associated with increased asthma severity.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16840406&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum">Aspergillus bronchitis in cystic fibrosis.</a>
Shoseyov D, Brownlee KG, Conway SP, Kerem E.
Department of Pediatrics and CF Center, Hadassah University Hospital, Mount Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel.

Aspergillus fumigatus, a widely distributed spore-bearing fungus, is commonly grown in sputum cultures of patients with cystic fibrosis (CF). A fumigatus may cause allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis (ABPA), a complex condition that leads to worsening of airway inflammation and progressive damage and is diagnosed by specific criteria. In this report, we present six CF patients with respiratory deterioration that did not respond to appropriate antibiotic treatment. All had had A fumigatus in sputum cultures but did not fulfill the criteria of ABPA. Treatment with antifungal agents was followed by improvement in clinical condition. We suggest that in patients with CF, A fumigatus should be considered as a pathogen that may directly cause respiratory exacerbations. Antifungal therapy should be considered when deteriorating respiratory function is not responding to antibacterial therapy and A fumigatus is growing in sputum cultures.



My summary point is that... MJ and the assoicated smoke can contain aspergillus. Breathing aspergillus into the lungs is bad for CF patients. Indeed, there is no study on CF patients. Why? It's not ethical to treat patients with something you suspect will lead to clinical decline. Based on the case reports that do exist, we know that CF patients are susceptible to aspergillus, and that it causes clinical decline in a number of those patients.

Really, why risk smoking it? If you really want it, more than a few CF patients above have talked about eating it.
 

miesl

New member
Okay, how about we try these two:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6348548&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum">Allergenic fungi and actinomycetes in smoking materials and their health implications.</a>
Kurup VP, Resnick A, Kagen SL, Cohen SH, Fink JN.
Street marijuana, commercial cigarettes and pipe tobaccos were studied for the presence of fungi and actinomycetes associated with hypersensitivity pneumonitis. Aspergillus species and thermophilic actinomycetes were isolated from the smoking materials. In addition, Aspergillus fumigatus spores were isolated from marijuana smoke, indicating the potential hazard involved in developing serious disease. Precipitin antibodies against fungi, particularly Aspergillus, showed a higher prevalence in marijuana smokers, whereas only very few cigarette smokers and nonsmokers demonstrated antibodies to fungi. Cigarette smokers and nonsmokers showed more or less similar prevelance of antibodies against thermophilic actinomycetes.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6833678&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum">Marijuana smoking and fungal sensitization.</a>
Kagen SL, Kurup VP, Sohnle PG, Fink JN.
The possible role of marijuana (MJ) in inducing sensitization to Aspergillus organisms was studied in 28 MJ smokers by evaluating their clinical status and immune responses to microorganisms isolated from MJ. The spectrum of illnesses included one patient with systemic aspergillosis and seven patients with a history of bronchospasm after the smoking of MJ. Twenty-one smokers were asymptomatic. Fungi were identified in 13 of 14 MJ samples and included Aspergillus fumigatus, A. flavus, A. niger, Mucor, Penicillium, and thermophilic actinomycetes. Precipitins to Aspergillus antigens were found in 13 of 23 smokers and in one of 10 controls, while significant blastogenesis to Aspergillus was demonstrated in only three of 23 MJ smokers. When samples were smoked into an Andersen air sampler, A. fumigatus passed easily through contaminated MJ cigarettes. Thus the use of MJ assumes the risks of both fungal exposure and infection, as well as the possible induction of a variety of immunologic lung disorders.

And in case people don't know why aspergillus is bad for the CF patient (The pub med search for cystic fibrosis and aspergillus comes up with 279 hits):

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17050421&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum">Genetic and respiratory tract risk factors for aspergillosis: ABPA and asthma with fungal sensitization.</a>
Knutsen AP.
St. Louis University Health Sciences Center, Saint Louis University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA.

Allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis (ABPA) is a Th2 allergic hypersensitivity lung disease due to bronchial colonization of Aspergillus fumigatus that affects 1-2% of asthmatic and 7-9% of cystic fibrosis (CF) patients. We hypothesize that genetic risk factors predispose these patients to develop ABPA. We previously reported HLA-DR2 and DR5 restriction as a risk factor for the development of ABPA. We further propose that HLA-DR restriction is necessary but not sufficient for the development of ABPA. Recently, we reported that IL-4Ralpha single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) and in particular the ile75val SNP in the IL-4 binding region is another risk factor and is associated with increased sensitivity to IL-4 stimulation. It has been reported that the combination of IL-4Ralpha and IL-13 SNP, ile75val/arg110gln, is associated with more severe asthma. In preliminary studies, we have observed increased frequency of this combination in ABPA asthmatic and CF patients. Another genetic risk factor reported by Brouard et al. is the -1082 GG genotype in the IL-10 promoter in CF patients for the colonization of A. fumigatus and development of ABPA. This genotype was associated with increased plasma IL-10 levels, and perhaps may be associated with increased skewing of Th2 Aspergillus responses rather than down-regulation of inflammatory responses. We hypothesize that increased sensitivity of IL-4 mediated activities secondary to polymorphisms IL-4R in conjunction of other polymorphisms such as IL-13 and IL-10 in conjunction with HLA-DR2/DR5 restriction to Aspergillus antigens in ABPA patients result in increased B-cell activity, monocyte/dendritic cell phenotype that skews Th2 responses, and skewing of Aspergillus-specific Th2 cells. This model system may be applicable to other fungi such as Alternaria and Cladosporium which is associated with increased asthma severity.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16840406&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum">Aspergillus bronchitis in cystic fibrosis.</a>
Shoseyov D, Brownlee KG, Conway SP, Kerem E.
Department of Pediatrics and CF Center, Hadassah University Hospital, Mount Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel.

Aspergillus fumigatus, a widely distributed spore-bearing fungus, is commonly grown in sputum cultures of patients with cystic fibrosis (CF). A fumigatus may cause allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis (ABPA), a complex condition that leads to worsening of airway inflammation and progressive damage and is diagnosed by specific criteria. In this report, we present six CF patients with respiratory deterioration that did not respond to appropriate antibiotic treatment. All had had A fumigatus in sputum cultures but did not fulfill the criteria of ABPA. Treatment with antifungal agents was followed by improvement in clinical condition. We suggest that in patients with CF, A fumigatus should be considered as a pathogen that may directly cause respiratory exacerbations. Antifungal therapy should be considered when deteriorating respiratory function is not responding to antibacterial therapy and A fumigatus is growing in sputum cultures.



My summary point is that... MJ and the assoicated smoke can contain aspergillus. Breathing aspergillus into the lungs is bad for CF patients. Indeed, there is no study on CF patients. Why? It's not ethical to treat patients with something you suspect will lead to clinical decline. Based on the case reports that do exist, we know that CF patients are susceptible to aspergillus, and that it causes clinical decline in a number of those patients.

Really, why risk smoking it? If you really want it, more than a few CF patients above have talked about eating it.
 

miesl

New member
Okay, how about we try these two:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6348548&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum">Allergenic fungi and actinomycetes in smoking materials and their health implications.</a>
Kurup VP, Resnick A, Kagen SL, Cohen SH, Fink JN.
Street marijuana, commercial cigarettes and pipe tobaccos were studied for the presence of fungi and actinomycetes associated with hypersensitivity pneumonitis. Aspergillus species and thermophilic actinomycetes were isolated from the smoking materials. In addition, Aspergillus fumigatus spores were isolated from marijuana smoke, indicating the potential hazard involved in developing serious disease. Precipitin antibodies against fungi, particularly Aspergillus, showed a higher prevalence in marijuana smokers, whereas only very few cigarette smokers and nonsmokers demonstrated antibodies to fungi. Cigarette smokers and nonsmokers showed more or less similar prevelance of antibodies against thermophilic actinomycetes.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6833678&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum">Marijuana smoking and fungal sensitization.</a>
Kagen SL, Kurup VP, Sohnle PG, Fink JN.
The possible role of marijuana (MJ) in inducing sensitization to Aspergillus organisms was studied in 28 MJ smokers by evaluating their clinical status and immune responses to microorganisms isolated from MJ. The spectrum of illnesses included one patient with systemic aspergillosis and seven patients with a history of bronchospasm after the smoking of MJ. Twenty-one smokers were asymptomatic. Fungi were identified in 13 of 14 MJ samples and included Aspergillus fumigatus, A. flavus, A. niger, Mucor, Penicillium, and thermophilic actinomycetes. Precipitins to Aspergillus antigens were found in 13 of 23 smokers and in one of 10 controls, while significant blastogenesis to Aspergillus was demonstrated in only three of 23 MJ smokers. When samples were smoked into an Andersen air sampler, A. fumigatus passed easily through contaminated MJ cigarettes. Thus the use of MJ assumes the risks of both fungal exposure and infection, as well as the possible induction of a variety of immunologic lung disorders.

And in case people don't know why aspergillus is bad for the CF patient (The pub med search for cystic fibrosis and aspergillus comes up with 279 hits):

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17050421&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum">Genetic and respiratory tract risk factors for aspergillosis: ABPA and asthma with fungal sensitization.</a>
Knutsen AP.
St. Louis University Health Sciences Center, Saint Louis University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA.

Allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis (ABPA) is a Th2 allergic hypersensitivity lung disease due to bronchial colonization of Aspergillus fumigatus that affects 1-2% of asthmatic and 7-9% of cystic fibrosis (CF) patients. We hypothesize that genetic risk factors predispose these patients to develop ABPA. We previously reported HLA-DR2 and DR5 restriction as a risk factor for the development of ABPA. We further propose that HLA-DR restriction is necessary but not sufficient for the development of ABPA. Recently, we reported that IL-4Ralpha single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) and in particular the ile75val SNP in the IL-4 binding region is another risk factor and is associated with increased sensitivity to IL-4 stimulation. It has been reported that the combination of IL-4Ralpha and IL-13 SNP, ile75val/arg110gln, is associated with more severe asthma. In preliminary studies, we have observed increased frequency of this combination in ABPA asthmatic and CF patients. Another genetic risk factor reported by Brouard et al. is the -1082 GG genotype in the IL-10 promoter in CF patients for the colonization of A. fumigatus and development of ABPA. This genotype was associated with increased plasma IL-10 levels, and perhaps may be associated with increased skewing of Th2 Aspergillus responses rather than down-regulation of inflammatory responses. We hypothesize that increased sensitivity of IL-4 mediated activities secondary to polymorphisms IL-4R in conjunction of other polymorphisms such as IL-13 and IL-10 in conjunction with HLA-DR2/DR5 restriction to Aspergillus antigens in ABPA patients result in increased B-cell activity, monocyte/dendritic cell phenotype that skews Th2 responses, and skewing of Aspergillus-specific Th2 cells. This model system may be applicable to other fungi such as Alternaria and Cladosporium which is associated with increased asthma severity.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16840406&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum">Aspergillus bronchitis in cystic fibrosis.</a>
Shoseyov D, Brownlee KG, Conway SP, Kerem E.
Department of Pediatrics and CF Center, Hadassah University Hospital, Mount Scopus, Jerusalem, Israel.

Aspergillus fumigatus, a widely distributed spore-bearing fungus, is commonly grown in sputum cultures of patients with cystic fibrosis (CF). A fumigatus may cause allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis (ABPA), a complex condition that leads to worsening of airway inflammation and progressive damage and is diagnosed by specific criteria. In this report, we present six CF patients with respiratory deterioration that did not respond to appropriate antibiotic treatment. All had had A fumigatus in sputum cultures but did not fulfill the criteria of ABPA. Treatment with antifungal agents was followed by improvement in clinical condition. We suggest that in patients with CF, A fumigatus should be considered as a pathogen that may directly cause respiratory exacerbations. Antifungal therapy should be considered when deteriorating respiratory function is not responding to antibacterial therapy and A fumigatus is growing in sputum cultures.



My summary point is that... MJ and the assoicated smoke can contain aspergillus. Breathing aspergillus into the lungs is bad for CF patients. Indeed, there is no study on CF patients. Why? It's not ethical to treat patients with something you suspect will lead to clinical decline. Based on the case reports that do exist, we know that CF patients are susceptible to aspergillus, and that it causes clinical decline in a number of those patients.

Really, why risk smoking it? If you really want it, more than a few CF patients above have talked about eating it.
 

KrazyKat

New member
Wow, enough long words in that puppy to make my head hurt!!! Point taken about the eating of it....the trouble for me is, I have never enjoyed the effect of eating it. It tends to give more of a 'whole body' stone, when I just want to sit on the couch, with no energy to do anything and it lasts for a LONG time. The hit from smoking it is more of a head stone and doesn't last so long, so isn't such an energy zapper, unless you smoke all day every day.

Anyway, I think we've about done this one to death, I don't smoke anymore anyway and DO actually believe it may do long term damage. I agree with Ender in that I just get annoyed at the strong and unsubstantiated views of many who oppose MJ purely because it's a drug and is illegal. When in reality, by far the more dangerous drug is alcohol, which is completely legal and can purchased at the local store more often than not.

I just think they should either both be legal, or both be illegal, not one of each, they are both drugs, it just comes down to personal choice as to which one you prefer. I also believe that alcohol in general causes a lot more health problems in normal people than MJ does...however this may not be the case for CFers.
 

KrazyKat

New member
Wow, enough long words in that puppy to make my head hurt!!! Point taken about the eating of it....the trouble for me is, I have never enjoyed the effect of eating it. It tends to give more of a 'whole body' stone, when I just want to sit on the couch, with no energy to do anything and it lasts for a LONG time. The hit from smoking it is more of a head stone and doesn't last so long, so isn't such an energy zapper, unless you smoke all day every day.

Anyway, I think we've about done this one to death, I don't smoke anymore anyway and DO actually believe it may do long term damage. I agree with Ender in that I just get annoyed at the strong and unsubstantiated views of many who oppose MJ purely because it's a drug and is illegal. When in reality, by far the more dangerous drug is alcohol, which is completely legal and can purchased at the local store more often than not.

I just think they should either both be legal, or both be illegal, not one of each, they are both drugs, it just comes down to personal choice as to which one you prefer. I also believe that alcohol in general causes a lot more health problems in normal people than MJ does...however this may not be the case for CFers.
 

KrazyKat

New member
Wow, enough long words in that puppy to make my head hurt!!! Point taken about the eating of it....the trouble for me is, I have never enjoyed the effect of eating it. It tends to give more of a 'whole body' stone, when I just want to sit on the couch, with no energy to do anything and it lasts for a LONG time. The hit from smoking it is more of a head stone and doesn't last so long, so isn't such an energy zapper, unless you smoke all day every day.

Anyway, I think we've about done this one to death, I don't smoke anymore anyway and DO actually believe it may do long term damage. I agree with Ender in that I just get annoyed at the strong and unsubstantiated views of many who oppose MJ purely because it's a drug and is illegal. When in reality, by far the more dangerous drug is alcohol, which is completely legal and can purchased at the local store more often than not.

I just think they should either both be legal, or both be illegal, not one of each, they are both drugs, it just comes down to personal choice as to which one you prefer. I also believe that alcohol in general causes a lot more health problems in normal people than MJ does...however this may not be the case for CFers.
 

kayleesgrandma

New member
Well said Kat, and I agree, enough said. Was very interesting topic, I think. Too bad it couldn't have been discussed a little more civally. I actually learned something from a few of the posts though. I hope others did too. RP, thanks for having the courage to bring up this subject. <b>Please don't feel that you can't bring any concerns you have to the forum here. </b>Just because we get into intense discussions--it doesn't mean that we don't look out for each other.
 

kayleesgrandma

New member
Well said Kat, and I agree, enough said. Was very interesting topic, I think. Too bad it couldn't have been discussed a little more civally. I actually learned something from a few of the posts though. I hope others did too. RP, thanks for having the courage to bring up this subject. <b>Please don't feel that you can't bring any concerns you have to the forum here. </b>Just because we get into intense discussions--it doesn't mean that we don't look out for each other.
 

kayleesgrandma

New member
Well said Kat, and I agree, enough said. Was very interesting topic, I think. Too bad it couldn't have been discussed a little more civally. I actually learned something from a few of the posts though. I hope others did too. RP, thanks for having the courage to bring up this subject. <b>Please don't feel that you can't bring any concerns you have to the forum here. </b>Just because we get into intense discussions--it doesn't mean that we don't look out for each other.
 

jbrandonAW

New member
WAIT can I say one thing? Well I think I'm gonna anyways lol

don't you think the cough and phelm could just be caused from "useing" the lungs? Don't you get a cough and phlem with exercise? Not trying to be a smart a$$ but come one... I get a cough and phlem from my prescibed meds....


----and to something crazykat said about drinking DON'T if you ahve cf.... I'm, not a drinker but I've had my share and b/c of it and not taking my pancrease ALL the time... I and coming down with (if that fits right) a bout ot chronis pancreatis.... Its bad bad bad... Cfers are quite proned.... FYI
 

jbrandonAW

New member
WAIT can I say one thing? Well I think I'm gonna anyways lol

don't you think the cough and phelm could just be caused from "useing" the lungs? Don't you get a cough and phlem with exercise? Not trying to be a smart a$$ but come one... I get a cough and phlem from my prescibed meds....


----and to something crazykat said about drinking DON'T if you ahve cf.... I'm, not a drinker but I've had my share and b/c of it and not taking my pancrease ALL the time... I and coming down with (if that fits right) a bout ot chronis pancreatis.... Its bad bad bad... Cfers are quite proned.... FYI
 

jbrandonAW

New member
WAIT can I say one thing? Well I think I'm gonna anyways lol

don't you think the cough and phelm could just be caused from "useing" the lungs? Don't you get a cough and phlem with exercise? Not trying to be a smart a$$ but come one... I get a cough and phlem from my prescibed meds....


----and to something crazykat said about drinking DON'T if you ahve cf.... I'm, not a drinker but I've had my share and b/c of it and not taking my pancrease ALL the time... I and coming down with (if that fits right) a bout ot chronis pancreatis.... Its bad bad bad... Cfers are quite proned.... FYI
 

kswitch

New member
man, it's too bad i just came into this one. i've been smoking pot for 16 years, damn near every day. i take in the equivalent of half a j daily, usually through a pipe. there are benefits, and they are real. my weight is maintained, i cough deeper, and it quiets the "voices" much better than ritalin, lexapro, or zoloft; and in a much more easily controlled dose. it also helps me feel more normal because i don't feel like i have to say no just because i have a pulmoary illness.

and if there is a cure for cf, i will be in line, and it won't be in the back. i only hope that i'm in front of all the judgemental #!*!s who would hang me for my choices so they can all kiss my stoned arse. i am just as compliant as the average cf'er, and i choose to self medicate. i am no less deserving than any other idiot unfortunate enough to have been born with bad genes. i do the best that i can, and i guarantee that i am smarter, more productive, and as compliant as a lot of others with cf, and mary jane has played a major role in shaping who i am.

as for choices, not all of us are cursed with the same progression, so not all of our choices are going to have the same consequences. with all due respect to fellow cf'ers that have it worse than me, i feel no obligation to make my choices according to your plight, and i have zero expectation on you to live the way i do. morality can be discussed all day, and we can cite a number superficially related articles indefinately, but none of it will equate to a damn thing to those who have danced the dance and returned unscathed. like most people who have been there have stated, they quit because of a fear that it might be causing irreversible damage, not because they have actually experienced anything conclusive.

and it may be damaging. as denis leary once said, "it's f-ing smoke!!". but the question is whether the actual benefits out-weigh the actual harm. all we have to go on at this point is potentialities. many are not willing to take the risk, but those that do should not be chastised for their choice.

and lastly, i will never be convinced that the amount that i smoke is any more damaging, or contains any more toxins than the city air i breathe constantly. i have more dry coughing fits and inflamation sitting in five o'clock traffic than i ever did hotboxing my living room. i can't even frolick through an innocent meadow without regretting it for days, but the effects of a bong hit gone bad lasts hours at the most.

that's all. i'm off to celebrate <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.
 

kswitch

New member
man, it's too bad i just came into this one. i've been smoking pot for 16 years, damn near every day. i take in the equivalent of half a j daily, usually through a pipe. there are benefits, and they are real. my weight is maintained, i cough deeper, and it quiets the "voices" much better than ritalin, lexapro, or zoloft; and in a much more easily controlled dose. it also helps me feel more normal because i don't feel like i have to say no just because i have a pulmoary illness.

and if there is a cure for cf, i will be in line, and it won't be in the back. i only hope that i'm in front of all the judgemental #!*!s who would hang me for my choices so they can all kiss my stoned arse. i am just as compliant as the average cf'er, and i choose to self medicate. i am no less deserving than any other idiot unfortunate enough to have been born with bad genes. i do the best that i can, and i guarantee that i am smarter, more productive, and as compliant as a lot of others with cf, and mary jane has played a major role in shaping who i am.

as for choices, not all of us are cursed with the same progression, so not all of our choices are going to have the same consequences. with all due respect to fellow cf'ers that have it worse than me, i feel no obligation to make my choices according to your plight, and i have zero expectation on you to live the way i do. morality can be discussed all day, and we can cite a number superficially related articles indefinately, but none of it will equate to a damn thing to those who have danced the dance and returned unscathed. like most people who have been there have stated, they quit because of a fear that it might be causing irreversible damage, not because they have actually experienced anything conclusive.

and it may be damaging. as denis leary once said, "it's f-ing smoke!!". but the question is whether the actual benefits out-weigh the actual harm. all we have to go on at this point is potentialities. many are not willing to take the risk, but those that do should not be chastised for their choice.

and lastly, i will never be convinced that the amount that i smoke is any more damaging, or contains any more toxins than the city air i breathe constantly. i have more dry coughing fits and inflamation sitting in five o'clock traffic than i ever did hotboxing my living room. i can't even frolick through an innocent meadow without regretting it for days, but the effects of a bong hit gone bad lasts hours at the most.

that's all. i'm off to celebrate <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.
 
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