The New Lung Transplant Guy

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>robynt</b></i>Plus if you wanna start playing the whole 'this isnt fair' game...whats fair about having cf full stop? People dont smoke in order to offend or upset us - we've been dealt a rubbish hand and thats the end of it.</end quote>

Agreed. As my grandfather always used to say, "Who promised you fair?"

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>robynt</b></i>Plus if you wanna start playing the whole 'this isnt fair' game...whats fair about having cf full stop? People dont smoke in order to offend or upset us - we've been dealt a rubbish hand and thats the end of it.</end quote>

Agreed. As my grandfather always used to say, "Who promised you fair?"

 

[Pumuckl]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>I guess what agitates me is that most smokers (not all) are inconsiderate and subject us non-smokers to their second hand smoke. Be it someone that lights up as soon as they walk out of a store/mall or someone that has to light up at a public place such as a State fair. These folks complain about laws that prohibit smoking in public places but will be the first to cry for new lungs when theirs fail.</end quote></div>



Woah, woah, woah...time out! Smokers who go outside to light up are not inconsiderate. If they go outside to smoke, why complain? They're not doing it in your face, blowing smoke right down your windpipe! At least they had the consideration to go into an open atmosphere to satisfy the habit! </end quote></div>

Where I live we have laws that prohibit smoking in public places (indoor). When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.

Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors. I do go into a coughing fit whenever I am subject to walking through smoke (and yes I do try to hold my breath). I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.

Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).

My parents were smokers as well my mom quit a long time ago (when I was diagnosed) my dad continued to smoke up until the time he was placed on oxygen (6 months before he died). My dad did smoke outdoors after I was diagnosed and never in my presence. I have relatives who are rude smokers and I do not associate with them anymore (they would come up and have a conversation with me right after they light up and blow smoke in my face).

Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs. All of these things are harmful not only to the person doing them but to others around them (alcohol only if used in excess, I have no problem with someone having the occasional drink as long as no drunk driving is involved).

Obviously the folks that are on the tx list have commited to not smoking in the future and taking better care of themselves. All of us on tx lists have made this commitment be it in the shape of eating healthier or taking all the meds we need etc. so that is not an issue.

I don't think anyone here wants another human being to suffer and not get the transplants they may need to continue living. I think what is upsetting is that we know of so many children and young adults that are taken from this world not due to anything they have done wrong but due to faith.

Then we look at the flipside and see individuals that have lived life the way they want, abusing their bodies be it with drugs, alchohol or smoking and they get another chance at life just like that. We know life is not fair but sometimes it would be nice if it did not have to be so blunt about it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.

Thanks for letting me vent <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Pumuckl]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>I guess what agitates me is that most smokers (not all) are inconsiderate and subject us non-smokers to their second hand smoke. Be it someone that lights up as soon as they walk out of a store/mall or someone that has to light up at a public place such as a State fair. These folks complain about laws that prohibit smoking in public places but will be the first to cry for new lungs when theirs fail.</end quote></div>



Woah, woah, woah...time out! Smokers who go outside to light up are not inconsiderate. If they go outside to smoke, why complain? They're not doing it in your face, blowing smoke right down your windpipe! At least they had the consideration to go into an open atmosphere to satisfy the habit! </end quote></div>

Where I live we have laws that prohibit smoking in public places (indoor). When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.

Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors. I do go into a coughing fit whenever I am subject to walking through smoke (and yes I do try to hold my breath). I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.

Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).

My parents were smokers as well my mom quit a long time ago (when I was diagnosed) my dad continued to smoke up until the time he was placed on oxygen (6 months before he died). My dad did smoke outdoors after I was diagnosed and never in my presence. I have relatives who are rude smokers and I do not associate with them anymore (they would come up and have a conversation with me right after they light up and blow smoke in my face).

Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs. All of these things are harmful not only to the person doing them but to others around them (alcohol only if used in excess, I have no problem with someone having the occasional drink as long as no drunk driving is involved).

Obviously the folks that are on the tx list have commited to not smoking in the future and taking better care of themselves. All of us on tx lists have made this commitment be it in the shape of eating healthier or taking all the meds we need etc. so that is not an issue.

I don't think anyone here wants another human being to suffer and not get the transplants they may need to continue living. I think what is upsetting is that we know of so many children and young adults that are taken from this world not due to anything they have done wrong but due to faith.

Then we look at the flipside and see individuals that have lived life the way they want, abusing their bodies be it with drugs, alchohol or smoking and they get another chance at life just like that. We know life is not fair but sometimes it would be nice if it did not have to be so blunt about it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.

Thanks for letting me vent <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Pumuckl]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>I guess what agitates me is that most smokers (not all) are inconsiderate and subject us non-smokers to their second hand smoke. Be it someone that lights up as soon as they walk out of a store/mall or someone that has to light up at a public place such as a State fair. These folks complain about laws that prohibit smoking in public places but will be the first to cry for new lungs when theirs fail.</end quote></div>



Woah, woah, woah...time out! Smokers who go outside to light up are not inconsiderate. If they go outside to smoke, why complain? They're not doing it in your face, blowing smoke right down your windpipe! At least they had the consideration to go into an open atmosphere to satisfy the habit! </end quote></div>

Where I live we have laws that prohibit smoking in public places (indoor). When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.

Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors. I do go into a coughing fit whenever I am subject to walking through smoke (and yes I do try to hold my breath). I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.

Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).

My parents were smokers as well my mom quit a long time ago (when I was diagnosed) my dad continued to smoke up until the time he was placed on oxygen (6 months before he died). My dad did smoke outdoors after I was diagnosed and never in my presence. I have relatives who are rude smokers and I do not associate with them anymore (they would come up and have a conversation with me right after they light up and blow smoke in my face).

Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs. All of these things are harmful not only to the person doing them but to others around them (alcohol only if used in excess, I have no problem with someone having the occasional drink as long as no drunk driving is involved).

Obviously the folks that are on the tx list have commited to not smoking in the future and taking better care of themselves. All of us on tx lists have made this commitment be it in the shape of eating healthier or taking all the meds we need etc. so that is not an issue.

I don't think anyone here wants another human being to suffer and not get the transplants they may need to continue living. I think what is upsetting is that we know of so many children and young adults that are taken from this world not due to anything they have done wrong but due to faith.

Then we look at the flipside and see individuals that have lived life the way they want, abusing their bodies be it with drugs, alchohol or smoking and they get another chance at life just like that. We know life is not fair but sometimes it would be nice if it did not have to be so blunt about it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.

Thanks for letting me vent <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Pumuckl]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>I guess what agitates me is that most smokers (not all) are inconsiderate and subject us non-smokers to their second hand smoke. Be it someone that lights up as soon as they walk out of a store/mall or someone that has to light up at a public place such as a State fair. These folks complain about laws that prohibit smoking in public places but will be the first to cry for new lungs when theirs fail.</end quote></div>



Woah, woah, woah...time out! Smokers who go outside to light up are not inconsiderate. If they go outside to smoke, why complain? They're not doing it in your face, blowing smoke right down your windpipe! At least they had the consideration to go into an open atmosphere to satisfy the habit! </end quote></div>

Where I live we have laws that prohibit smoking in public places (indoor). When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.

Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors. I do go into a coughing fit whenever I am subject to walking through smoke (and yes I do try to hold my breath). I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.

Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).

My parents were smokers as well my mom quit a long time ago (when I was diagnosed) my dad continued to smoke up until the time he was placed on oxygen (6 months before he died). My dad did smoke outdoors after I was diagnosed and never in my presence. I have relatives who are rude smokers and I do not associate with them anymore (they would come up and have a conversation with me right after they light up and blow smoke in my face).

Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs. All of these things are harmful not only to the person doing them but to others around them (alcohol only if used in excess, I have no problem with someone having the occasional drink as long as no drunk driving is involved).

Obviously the folks that are on the tx list have commited to not smoking in the future and taking better care of themselves. All of us on tx lists have made this commitment be it in the shape of eating healthier or taking all the meds we need etc. so that is not an issue.

I don't think anyone here wants another human being to suffer and not get the transplants they may need to continue living. I think what is upsetting is that we know of so many children and young adults that are taken from this world not due to anything they have done wrong but due to faith.

Then we look at the flipside and see individuals that have lived life the way they want, abusing their bodies be it with drugs, alchohol or smoking and they get another chance at life just like that. We know life is not fair but sometimes it would be nice if it did not have to be so blunt about it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.

Thanks for letting me vent <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Pumuckl]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>I guess what agitates me is that most smokers (not all) are inconsiderate and subject us non-smokers to their second hand smoke. Be it someone that lights up as soon as they walk out of a store/mall or someone that has to light up at a public place such as a State fair. These folks complain about laws that prohibit smoking in public places but will be the first to cry for new lungs when theirs fail.</end quote>



Woah, woah, woah...time out! Smokers who go outside to light up are not inconsiderate. If they go outside to smoke, why complain? They're not doing it in your face, blowing smoke right down your windpipe! At least they had the consideration to go into an open atmosphere to satisfy the habit! </end quote>

Where I live we have laws that prohibit smoking in public places (indoor). When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.

Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors. I do go into a coughing fit whenever I am subject to walking through smoke (and yes I do try to hold my breath). I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.

Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).

My parents were smokers as well my mom quit a long time ago (when I was diagnosed) my dad continued to smoke up until the time he was placed on oxygen (6 months before he died). My dad did smoke outdoors after I was diagnosed and never in my presence. I have relatives who are rude smokers and I do not associate with them anymore (they would come up and have a conversation with me right after they light up and blow smoke in my face).

Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs. All of these things are harmful not only to the person doing them but to others around them (alcohol only if used in excess, I have no problem with someone having the occasional drink as long as no drunk driving is involved).

Obviously the folks that are on the tx list have commited to not smoking in the future and taking better care of themselves. All of us on tx lists have made this commitment be it in the shape of eating healthier or taking all the meds we need etc. so that is not an issue.

I don't think anyone here wants another human being to suffer and not get the transplants they may need to continue living. I think what is upsetting is that we know of so many children and young adults that are taken from this world not due to anything they have done wrong but due to faith.

Then we look at the flipside and see individuals that have lived life the way they want, abusing their bodies be it with drugs, alchohol or smoking and they get another chance at life just like that. We know life is not fair but sometimes it would be nice if it did not have to be so blunt about it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.

Thanks for letting me vent <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Pumuckl]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>I guess what agitates me is that most smokers (not all) are inconsiderate and subject us non-smokers to their second hand smoke. Be it someone that lights up as soon as they walk out of a store/mall or someone that has to light up at a public place such as a State fair. These folks complain about laws that prohibit smoking in public places but will be the first to cry for new lungs when theirs fail.</end quote>



Woah, woah, woah...time out! Smokers who go outside to light up are not inconsiderate. If they go outside to smoke, why complain? They're not doing it in your face, blowing smoke right down your windpipe! At least they had the consideration to go into an open atmosphere to satisfy the habit! </end quote>

Where I live we have laws that prohibit smoking in public places (indoor). When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.

Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors. I do go into a coughing fit whenever I am subject to walking through smoke (and yes I do try to hold my breath). I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.

Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).

My parents were smokers as well my mom quit a long time ago (when I was diagnosed) my dad continued to smoke up until the time he was placed on oxygen (6 months before he died). My dad did smoke outdoors after I was diagnosed and never in my presence. I have relatives who are rude smokers and I do not associate with them anymore (they would come up and have a conversation with me right after they light up and blow smoke in my face).

Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs. All of these things are harmful not only to the person doing them but to others around them (alcohol only if used in excess, I have no problem with someone having the occasional drink as long as no drunk driving is involved).

Obviously the folks that are on the tx list have commited to not smoking in the future and taking better care of themselves. All of us on tx lists have made this commitment be it in the shape of eating healthier or taking all the meds we need etc. so that is not an issue.

I don't think anyone here wants another human being to suffer and not get the transplants they may need to continue living. I think what is upsetting is that we know of so many children and young adults that are taken from this world not due to anything they have done wrong but due to faith.

Then we look at the flipside and see individuals that have lived life the way they want, abusing their bodies be it with drugs, alchohol or smoking and they get another chance at life just like that. We know life is not fair but sometimes it would be nice if it did not have to be so blunt about it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">.

Thanks for letting me vent <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.
</end quote></div>

Its also rude of someone to cut in front of you in traffic. But you can't stop that any more than you can stop someone from smoking when and where they want to. Better to just accept that fact that be so aggrevated by it.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors.</end quote></div>

I didn't say cigarette smoke was exactly the same as other toxins in the air. But just because you don't go into a coughing spasm doesn't mean that the air is clean, either. I have a much harder time breathing outdoors than I do in my own home.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.</end quote></div>

I'll admit...that is pretty rude (not to mention stupid). But my point is that not every smoker is like that.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal...</end quote></div>

Sorry, this is going to be O.T....but come on! A law against suicide is moronic. You're dead if you succed! What does it matter?! As far as making smoking illegal for that reason...you'd have to outlaw alcohol, too. Which we tried once in this country and it didn't work out so well...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs.</end quote></div>

Alcohol can have far worse effects on someone than smoking. I've never seen anyone get into a wreck and kill themselves/someone else on the road because of cigs, much less end up going into a stupor and beating their kid/spouse, etc. Alcohol, if used habitually, can cause far more damage all round than cigarettes can. I've seen it happen. So yes, in my opinion and experience, cigarettes are like puppies compared to other things out there. I would much rather someone smoke than drink like a fish, or shoot up.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. My only point is to not hate every person that smokes just because we have a lung condition. That's more spite and/or jealousy, I think, than anything else. I get more upset when I see good lungs wasted on a useless person (i.e. someone with no education, no job, abusing the system, etc.) than someone who smokes. But I'm not going to go further into that. Its just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.
</end quote></div>

Its also rude of someone to cut in front of you in traffic. But you can't stop that any more than you can stop someone from smoking when and where they want to. Better to just accept that fact that be so aggrevated by it.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors.</end quote></div>

I didn't say cigarette smoke was exactly the same as other toxins in the air. But just because you don't go into a coughing spasm doesn't mean that the air is clean, either. I have a much harder time breathing outdoors than I do in my own home.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.</end quote></div>

I'll admit...that is pretty rude (not to mention stupid). But my point is that not every smoker is like that.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal...</end quote></div>

Sorry, this is going to be O.T....but come on! A law against suicide is moronic. You're dead if you succed! What does it matter?! As far as making smoking illegal for that reason...you'd have to outlaw alcohol, too. Which we tried once in this country and it didn't work out so well...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs.</end quote></div>

Alcohol can have far worse effects on someone than smoking. I've never seen anyone get into a wreck and kill themselves/someone else on the road because of cigs, much less end up going into a stupor and beating their kid/spouse, etc. Alcohol, if used habitually, can cause far more damage all round than cigarettes can. I've seen it happen. So yes, in my opinion and experience, cigarettes are like puppies compared to other things out there. I would much rather someone smoke than drink like a fish, or shoot up.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. My only point is to not hate every person that smokes just because we have a lung condition. That's more spite and/or jealousy, I think, than anything else. I get more upset when I see good lungs wasted on a useless person (i.e. someone with no education, no job, abusing the system, etc.) than someone who smokes. But I'm not going to go further into that. Its just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.
</end quote></div>

Its also rude of someone to cut in front of you in traffic. But you can't stop that any more than you can stop someone from smoking when and where they want to. Better to just accept that fact that be so aggrevated by it.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors.</end quote></div>

I didn't say cigarette smoke was exactly the same as other toxins in the air. But just because you don't go into a coughing spasm doesn't mean that the air is clean, either. I have a much harder time breathing outdoors than I do in my own home.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.</end quote></div>

I'll admit...that is pretty rude (not to mention stupid). But my point is that not every smoker is like that.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal...</end quote></div>

Sorry, this is going to be O.T....but come on! A law against suicide is moronic. You're dead if you succed! What does it matter?! As far as making smoking illegal for that reason...you'd have to outlaw alcohol, too. Which we tried once in this country and it didn't work out so well...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs.</end quote></div>

Alcohol can have far worse effects on someone than smoking. I've never seen anyone get into a wreck and kill themselves/someone else on the road because of cigs, much less end up going into a stupor and beating their kid/spouse, etc. Alcohol, if used habitually, can cause far more damage all round than cigarettes can. I've seen it happen. So yes, in my opinion and experience, cigarettes are like puppies compared to other things out there. I would much rather someone smoke than drink like a fish, or shoot up.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. My only point is to not hate every person that smokes just because we have a lung condition. That's more spite and/or jealousy, I think, than anything else. I get more upset when I see good lungs wasted on a useless person (i.e. someone with no education, no job, abusing the system, etc.) than someone who smokes. But I'm not going to go further into that. Its just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.
</end quote></div>

Its also rude of someone to cut in front of you in traffic. But you can't stop that any more than you can stop someone from smoking when and where they want to. Better to just accept that fact that be so aggrevated by it.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors.</end quote></div>

I didn't say cigarette smoke was exactly the same as other toxins in the air. But just because you don't go into a coughing spasm doesn't mean that the air is clean, either. I have a much harder time breathing outdoors than I do in my own home.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.</end quote></div>

I'll admit...that is pretty rude (not to mention stupid). But my point is that not every smoker is like that.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal...</end quote></div>

Sorry, this is going to be O.T....but come on! A law against suicide is moronic. You're dead if you succed! What does it matter?! As far as making smoking illegal for that reason...you'd have to outlaw alcohol, too. Which we tried once in this country and it didn't work out so well...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs.</end quote></div>

Alcohol can have far worse effects on someone than smoking. I've never seen anyone get into a wreck and kill themselves/someone else on the road because of cigs, much less end up going into a stupor and beating their kid/spouse, etc. Alcohol, if used habitually, can cause far more damage all round than cigarettes can. I've seen it happen. So yes, in my opinion and experience, cigarettes are like puppies compared to other things out there. I would much rather someone smoke than drink like a fish, or shoot up.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. My only point is to not hate every person that smokes just because we have a lung condition. That's more spite and/or jealousy, I think, than anything else. I get more upset when I see good lungs wasted on a useless person (i.e. someone with no education, no job, abusing the system, etc.) than someone who smokes. But I'm not going to go further into that. Its just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.
</end quote>

Its also rude of someone to cut in front of you in traffic. But you can't stop that any more than you can stop someone from smoking when and where they want to. Better to just accept that fact that be so aggrevated by it.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors.</end quote>

I didn't say cigarette smoke was exactly the same as other toxins in the air. But just because you don't go into a coughing spasm doesn't mean that the air is clean, either. I have a much harder time breathing outdoors than I do in my own home.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.</end quote>

I'll admit...that is pretty rude (not to mention stupid). But my point is that not every smoker is like that.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal...</end quote>

Sorry, this is going to be O.T....but come on! A law against suicide is moronic. You're dead if you succed! What does it matter?! As far as making smoking illegal for that reason...you'd have to outlaw alcohol, too. Which we tried once in this country and it didn't work out so well...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs.</end quote>

Alcohol can have far worse effects on someone than smoking. I've never seen anyone get into a wreck and kill themselves/someone else on the road because of cigs, much less end up going into a stupor and beating their kid/spouse, etc. Alcohol, if used habitually, can cause far more damage all round than cigarettes can. I've seen it happen. So yes, in my opinion and experience, cigarettes are like puppies compared to other things out there. I would much rather someone smoke than drink like a fish, or shoot up.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. My only point is to not hate every person that smokes just because we have a lung condition. That's more spite and/or jealousy, I think, than anything else. I get more upset when I see good lungs wasted on a useless person (i.e. someone with no education, no job, abusing the system, etc.) than someone who smokes. But I'm not going to go further into that. Its just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

When I go out to eat I do not want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of the place and yes that is rude. For one the law states that these ppl must be a certain distance from the entrance but they do not care and violate this regularly.
</end quote>

Its also rude of someone to cut in front of you in traffic. But you can't stop that any more than you can stop someone from smoking when and where they want to. Better to just accept that fact that be so aggrevated by it.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Also, it is far different then the air we breathe daily. I don't go into a coughing fit just by walking outdoors.</end quote>

I didn't say cigarette smoke was exactly the same as other toxins in the air. But just because you don't go into a coughing spasm doesn't mean that the air is clean, either. I have a much harder time breathing outdoors than I do in my own home.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I am also on oxygen and I cannot tell you how often I have been on a waiting list for a restaurant and had to wait outdoors to have a smoker come up and stand right next to where I sit and wait.</end quote>

I'll admit...that is pretty rude (not to mention stupid). But my point is that not every smoker is like that.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal...</end quote>

Sorry, this is going to be O.T....but come on! A law against suicide is moronic. You're dead if you succed! What does it matter?! As far as making smoking illegal for that reason...you'd have to outlaw alcohol, too. Which we tried once in this country and it didn't work out so well...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Saying that smoking may be the lesser of other evils such as drugs, alcohol etc. is just a bunch of bs.</end quote>

Alcohol can have far worse effects on someone than smoking. I've never seen anyone get into a wreck and kill themselves/someone else on the road because of cigs, much less end up going into a stupor and beating their kid/spouse, etc. Alcohol, if used habitually, can cause far more damage all round than cigarettes can. I've seen it happen. So yes, in my opinion and experience, cigarettes are like puppies compared to other things out there. I would much rather someone smoke than drink like a fish, or shoot up.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. My only point is to not hate every person that smokes just because we have a lung condition. That's more spite and/or jealousy, I think, than anything else. I get more upset when I see good lungs wasted on a useless person (i.e. someone with no education, no job, abusing the system, etc.) than someone who smokes. But I'm not going to go further into that. Its just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>



Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).



</end quote></div>


Again, just wanted to bring up the idea that if you think people who don't take care of their bodies or do things they know will harm them in the long run should have to "give back" to the community, do you also feel this way toward CFers who do not take care of their CF or do things they know will harm them in the long run? Where do you draw the line?

I totally agree with the smoking thing. I cannot stand smoking, and living in Vegas (where they're bringing up class action lawsuits now against the recently passed law to ban smoking in restaurants.. ridiculous), I suffer when my friends/family want to take in the sites and sounds of vegas leaving me with the choice of whether I go out and feel like crap for days after or stay in and watch my friends/family do things without me participating. So, I totally agree with your arguments against smoke. You walk down the strip or at outdoor malls here and its sometimes WORSE than a casino cause people are smoking and blowing it all around you. Its crazy.

But, I just thought I'd remind everyone to think of what you're saying when you bring up smokers hurting themselves or not doing what they should and also maybe apply that to CFers hurting themselves and not doing what they should. Is it a double standard to think this way about one group of people but not another? Just something to ponder. Maybe, with reference to the post above, CFers who don't exercise, should have to go and speak at seminars to CF people about the benefits of exercise with CF pre or post tx? Maybe this IS a good idea, I don't know, but just remember when you talk about the general population doing something to harm themselves, some CFers do things that harm themselves as well (or aren't good for them). If you apply these criteria to the general public, wouldn't you also have to apply them to CFers, diabetics, etc...?

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>



Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).



</end quote></div>


Again, just wanted to bring up the idea that if you think people who don't take care of their bodies or do things they know will harm them in the long run should have to "give back" to the community, do you also feel this way toward CFers who do not take care of their CF or do things they know will harm them in the long run? Where do you draw the line?

I totally agree with the smoking thing. I cannot stand smoking, and living in Vegas (where they're bringing up class action lawsuits now against the recently passed law to ban smoking in restaurants.. ridiculous), I suffer when my friends/family want to take in the sites and sounds of vegas leaving me with the choice of whether I go out and feel like crap for days after or stay in and watch my friends/family do things without me participating. So, I totally agree with your arguments against smoke. You walk down the strip or at outdoor malls here and its sometimes WORSE than a casino cause people are smoking and blowing it all around you. Its crazy.

But, I just thought I'd remind everyone to think of what you're saying when you bring up smokers hurting themselves or not doing what they should and also maybe apply that to CFers hurting themselves and not doing what they should. Is it a double standard to think this way about one group of people but not another? Just something to ponder. Maybe, with reference to the post above, CFers who don't exercise, should have to go and speak at seminars to CF people about the benefits of exercise with CF pre or post tx? Maybe this IS a good idea, I don't know, but just remember when you talk about the general population doing something to harm themselves, some CFers do things that harm themselves as well (or aren't good for them). If you apply these criteria to the general public, wouldn't you also have to apply them to CFers, diabetics, etc...?

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>



Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).



</end quote></div>


Again, just wanted to bring up the idea that if you think people who don't take care of their bodies or do things they know will harm them in the long run should have to "give back" to the community, do you also feel this way toward CFers who do not take care of their CF or do things they know will harm them in the long run? Where do you draw the line?

I totally agree with the smoking thing. I cannot stand smoking, and living in Vegas (where they're bringing up class action lawsuits now against the recently passed law to ban smoking in restaurants.. ridiculous), I suffer when my friends/family want to take in the sites and sounds of vegas leaving me with the choice of whether I go out and feel like crap for days after or stay in and watch my friends/family do things without me participating. So, I totally agree with your arguments against smoke. You walk down the strip or at outdoor malls here and its sometimes WORSE than a casino cause people are smoking and blowing it all around you. Its crazy.

But, I just thought I'd remind everyone to think of what you're saying when you bring up smokers hurting themselves or not doing what they should and also maybe apply that to CFers hurting themselves and not doing what they should. Is it a double standard to think this way about one group of people but not another? Just something to ponder. Maybe, with reference to the post above, CFers who don't exercise, should have to go and speak at seminars to CF people about the benefits of exercise with CF pre or post tx? Maybe this IS a good idea, I don't know, but just remember when you talk about the general population doing something to harm themselves, some CFers do things that harm themselves as well (or aren't good for them). If you apply these criteria to the general public, wouldn't you also have to apply them to CFers, diabetics, etc...?

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>



Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).



</end quote></div>


Again, just wanted to bring up the idea that if you think people who don't take care of their bodies or do things they know will harm them in the long run should have to "give back" to the community, do you also feel this way toward CFers who do not take care of their CF or do things they know will harm them in the long run? Where do you draw the line?

I totally agree with the smoking thing. I cannot stand smoking, and living in Vegas (where they're bringing up class action lawsuits now against the recently passed law to ban smoking in restaurants.. ridiculous), I suffer when my friends/family want to take in the sites and sounds of vegas leaving me with the choice of whether I go out and feel like crap for days after or stay in and watch my friends/family do things without me participating. So, I totally agree with your arguments against smoke. You walk down the strip or at outdoor malls here and its sometimes WORSE than a casino cause people are smoking and blowing it all around you. Its crazy.

But, I just thought I'd remind everyone to think of what you're saying when you bring up smokers hurting themselves or not doing what they should and also maybe apply that to CFers hurting themselves and not doing what they should. Is it a double standard to think this way about one group of people but not another? Just something to ponder. Maybe, with reference to the post above, CFers who don't exercise, should have to go and speak at seminars to CF people about the benefits of exercise with CF pre or post tx? Maybe this IS a good idea, I don't know, but just remember when you talk about the general population doing something to harm themselves, some CFers do things that harm themselves as well (or aren't good for them). If you apply these criteria to the general public, wouldn't you also have to apply them to CFers, diabetics, etc...?

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>



Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).



</end quote>


Again, just wanted to bring up the idea that if you think people who don't take care of their bodies or do things they know will harm them in the long run should have to "give back" to the community, do you also feel this way toward CFers who do not take care of their CF or do things they know will harm them in the long run? Where do you draw the line?

I totally agree with the smoking thing. I cannot stand smoking, and living in Vegas (where they're bringing up class action lawsuits now against the recently passed law to ban smoking in restaurants.. ridiculous), I suffer when my friends/family want to take in the sites and sounds of vegas leaving me with the choice of whether I go out and feel like crap for days after or stay in and watch my friends/family do things without me participating. So, I totally agree with your arguments against smoke. You walk down the strip or at outdoor malls here and its sometimes WORSE than a casino cause people are smoking and blowing it all around you. Its crazy.

But, I just thought I'd remind everyone to think of what you're saying when you bring up smokers hurting themselves or not doing what they should and also maybe apply that to CFers hurting themselves and not doing what they should. Is it a double standard to think this way about one group of people but not another? Just something to ponder. Maybe, with reference to the post above, CFers who don't exercise, should have to go and speak at seminars to CF people about the benefits of exercise with CF pre or post tx? Maybe this IS a good idea, I don't know, but just remember when you talk about the general population doing something to harm themselves, some CFers do things that harm themselves as well (or aren't good for them). If you apply these criteria to the general public, wouldn't you also have to apply them to CFers, diabetics, etc...?

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i>



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Pumuckl</b></i>



Now, to clarify do I think smokers are totally none deserving of another chance for life? Of course not, but I do think that something needs to be done about folks that intentionally harm themselves. Suicide is against the law in most states however smoking is not illegal... smoking is just another way of killing yourself (granted very slowly, but still). Perhaps smokers should be asked to do some type of community service (either pre or post tx) to speak to groups of younger ppl and explain to them the risks of smoking... sometimes it takes the direct approach to show folks the reality of life (perhaps that is a silly idea who knows).



</end quote>


Again, just wanted to bring up the idea that if you think people who don't take care of their bodies or do things they know will harm them in the long run should have to "give back" to the community, do you also feel this way toward CFers who do not take care of their CF or do things they know will harm them in the long run? Where do you draw the line?

I totally agree with the smoking thing. I cannot stand smoking, and living in Vegas (where they're bringing up class action lawsuits now against the recently passed law to ban smoking in restaurants.. ridiculous), I suffer when my friends/family want to take in the sites and sounds of vegas leaving me with the choice of whether I go out and feel like crap for days after or stay in and watch my friends/family do things without me participating. So, I totally agree with your arguments against smoke. You walk down the strip or at outdoor malls here and its sometimes WORSE than a casino cause people are smoking and blowing it all around you. Its crazy.

But, I just thought I'd remind everyone to think of what you're saying when you bring up smokers hurting themselves or not doing what they should and also maybe apply that to CFers hurting themselves and not doing what they should. Is it a double standard to think this way about one group of people but not another? Just something to ponder. Maybe, with reference to the post above, CFers who don't exercise, should have to go and speak at seminars to CF people about the benefits of exercise with CF pre or post tx? Maybe this IS a good idea, I don't know, but just remember when you talk about the general population doing something to harm themselves, some CFers do things that harm themselves as well (or aren't good for them). If you apply these criteria to the general public, wouldn't you also have to apply them to CFers, diabetics, etc...?